Discussion question: Thoughts on the most emotive Spartan-II after Kurt?
I’m personally torn between Kelly and Fred. On the one hand, Kelly is very reactive to her environment (see: giving sentinels the finger), often cracks jokes and comforts her team mates, and acts as a translator of sorts to give voice to ideas and emotions that other Spartans have trouble expressing (John especially – there’s a quote in FOR about this but I can’t find it at the moment).
On the other hand, Fred has trouble hiding his emotions (as mentioned by Halsey in Glasslands), and seems particularly crummy at stopping his anxiety from spilling out when his team is in danger. He also has his own very dry brand of humour, comforts his family when they’re not doing well (see: the Gammas) and seems to be adept at dealing with non-Spartan personnel (which I bring up only to contrast him with someone like Linda, who is demonstrative in her own way, but only to close family who understand very nuanced and subtle body and verbal cues that most other people simply view as cold detachment).
I suppose you could make the argument that Kelly is intentionally demonstrative, as opposed to Fred’s often accidental outbursts, and is thefore the more emotive one out of the two. I don’t know how much of that agency/control factors into the “emotive” label, though, since they seem like different ways to come to the same end point.
I think this is a good distinction. Kelly does it on purpose, whereas emotion just… happens to Fred and he’s confused as to how he’s supposed to deal with it
Uh… This is pretty much a long list of instances in which the Master Chief is referred to by John in Halo: The Fall of Reach (I don’t know what else to call it). I have listed the chapter and page (in bold), but keep in mind I have a print copy of the definitive edition.
Notes: Some short instances require some a little context, but the context is far too many lines. Unfortunately it’s a fairly short description from me. Anywhere I omitted a bit of the original text for brevity is noted with . . . (
ellipsis with spaces)
And sorry for the bad grammar and my awkward writing. (It’s also like, a light-year long, and this hellsite wrecked all my formatting when I transferred it over.)
@mrs-chief I DID IT IN ONE DAY. THE JOHN LIST FOR TFOR IS HERE. IT TOOK ME LIKE FIVE HOURS BUT I REGRET NOTHING.
Things I noted that made me cry: John is often referred to his real name when his Spartans are in danger/potential danger, and it’s heartbreaking. Other times are character defining moments that are just beautifully pensive.
I’ll have the next two books done by the end of the week hopefully. I’ll tag you in that too.
And if you know anyone else who wants this list you can spread it around.
Holy shit this is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I totally see what you were saying now about the pattern. When Nylund is writing more introspective scenes, or more intimate scenes, he’s John. But when he’s writing a scene where he’s a leader and a beacon for those around him, he’s back to Chief/Master Chief. It’s interesting because in Halo 5, the Warden Eternal taunts John, saying that Cortana knows his “real name, before [he] was 117″, which sort of brings up a discussion of how humanism is tied to having a name. After all, most people don’t even know him as Spartan-117, let alone John-117. They just know him as the Master Chief, this big, arguably terrifying robot in power armor.
I think this is something really important in Halo also because the use of real names among people who’ve been stripped of their humanity really shows not only how close they are, but how trusting and candid they can be together. This is something I kind of disliked in Halo 5 because John calls Fred “Frederic” and it just seems, odd and out-of-character.
Now, granted, I could make an argument about how it’s inappropriate to be on a first-name basis with your comrades in the military (I got yelled at for this once, absolutely true story) but really, in this case when John is so deprived of not only humanity but also just straight-up normal socialization, it’s refreshing to see writers (especially Nylund my beloved <3) peel back the armor and show him as he is.
(also i will literally always cry reading the bit where he goes to Camp Hathcock my heart hurts i love him so endlessly)
Thank you so much this is truly a gift and I am blessed ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤
Yeah, that’s always seem to bother me also. I don’t really think there’s a canon explanation, but I tend to rationalize it as John being confused on whether he should fight a brother-in-arms or not, kind of like what happened in the gym on the Atlas in Fall of Reach. Also, I’m sure John wasn’t looking to seriously maim or kill Locke, just incapacitate him for a little bit so that might be why it seems like he held back. John has had kind of an unspoken personal rule since Eridanus Secundus to never kill another human being again, so I’m sure that’s a factor.
I refuse to believe that the SIVs are as strong as it seemed in the fight. The reason why SIIs are so ostracized and feared is because they are so beyond normal human strength and even super-human strength.
Putting aside the “poor writing” explanation (since it’s ultimately the answer and has already been discussed ad nauseum), I think part of it was that when 343 rolled out the Spartan-IVs, the fanbase very loudly complained about how much they disliked them, and ever since then it seems like 343 has to do this balancing act where they have to make sure the original Spartans maintain superiority, but that they don’t make the IVs look incompetent by comparison. John beating Locke in the fight would have garnered a “look see they can’t do ANYTHING!” response from fans (which I’ve already seen anyway); conversely, giving Locke the definitive upper hand would have made people (rightfully, I think) complain about breaking canon.
Personally, I think the fight makes sense in the context of John being utterly exhausted – On the Brink and TN72H both gave us a glimpse of how hard he’s pushing himself and Blue Team after Cortana’s death, and then we have Fred worrying about him at the very beginning of the game. It’s obvious that Chief isn’t at his best, and so a skilled team like Osiris, even if they wouldn’t be a match for Blue Team when they’re well-rested and not going AWOL, are able to slip into the crack’s of John’s armour and deal a few good blows.
The exhaustion makes a lot of sense. We see a side of John in H5 we’ve never really seen before, especially with the “like hell she is” comment. He seems irritated, confused, hurt, and above all, tired.
There is literally no competition here, the Ur-Didact would crush John – with or without armour.
This is an 11.4 foot tall Warrior-Servant who can splinter his own perception of time and ‘see’ into multiple dimensions without any need for armour, effectively giving him not only the ability to ‘slow down’ time but also anticipate things before they happen.
He utterly slaughtered Black Team, four Spartan-IIs, immediately after awakening on Installation 03. And he very nearly crushed John’s skull with a single hand.
There is no possible way John, or any Spartan, could take on the Didact and beat him. Forerunners are OP as fuck.
1) Infinity, after encountering the Spartan-Ivs, Lasky, and Palmer.
Cortana: “A topographical scan of the area shows a break in the foliage north of here, should be big enough to bring in a dropship for evac. Of course, I don’t know how many Spartans they can fit on there…”
John: "You noticed that too, huh?“
Cortana: “Apparently we were easier to replace than to rescue.”
2) Infinity, when you get the Mantis.
Cortana: “Just how you like them: big, ugly, and overflowing with machine guns and rocket launchers.”
3) Reclaimer, upon entering Librarian’s Rest and encountering the Sentinels.
Cortana: “Chief, hold up. Those Sentinels are still the same blue colour as the ones we saw earlier, before the Didact took control of the Prometheans.”
4) Reclaimer, after the Librarian snatches Cortana from the system.
Cortana: “Chief, get me out of here!”
John: “Cortana?”
Librarian: “Your ancilla is safe, Reclaimer Use of your armour’s neural link is required for this simulation, and so separating you was a necessity.”
5) Composer, just after Cortana crashes the Lich into Ivanoff.
Cortana: “I’m sorry – I just… can’t stop them. It’s like a thousand of me arguing all at once!”
John: “I know–”
Cortana: “That this station is already lost? That we’ll never find Halsey?”
John: “You got us here. That’s all that matters.”
6) Midnight, going through the gravity lift towards the final area.
Cortana: “Chief… The Didact… he’ll be out there, won’t he?”
John: “Focus on the Composer. If we face the Didact, we’ll find a way… together.”
Cortana: “And if we can’t? John… I don’t know if I’m ready.”
John: “Nobody ever is, Cortana. But we all reach the end, some day.”
Cortana: “No, John… it’s just that… I’m just not ready to lose you.”
7) Midnight, just as the Didact begins to power up the Composer.
John: “Cortana, something’s happening!”
Cortana: “The Composer… it’s preparing to fire!”
John: “No!”
Cortana: “If we can just reach the Composer’s controls, maybe I can–”
John: “No time for maybes, Cortana. It needs to be stopped at any cost.”
Cortana: “John… you can’t mean…”
John: “I think we both knew this was a one-way trip.”
So for context: I brought this up because I was trying to hurt Alex with AUs/possible H6 outcomes I came up with @decade-dance, where John and Cortana choose to die together because they can’t live without each other (think Amy and Rory from Doctor Who)
saratogaroad 